'Childish' music

[Dan S. MacAbre]

When I listen to Faure's 'Berceuse', or Jobim's 'Childrens' Games', they
seem to invoke a feeling of childhood memories. Can music theory
explain this?

[J.B. Wood]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
When I listen to Faure's 'Berceuse', or Jobim's 'Childrens' Games', they
seem to invoke a feeling of childhood memories. Can music theory
explain this?

Hello, and just when I thought this ng was on life support. I think
before an answer to this question could be formulated you'd have to get
the images conjured up in the minds of many people who would listen to
the works you mentioned or other pieces that may provoke a "childish"
impression to you. I wouldn't reveal the titles of the works to the
subjects (who may well have heard them before). Put the subjects in a
room with minimal visual cues. Now tabulate all their impressions and
see of there's a thread of commonality. Then perhaps one can look for
musical structures common to these works.

Composers writing motion picture scores strive to enhance what is acted
out on screen and the best always pull this off. For example, when I
hear John Williams's "Hymn to the Fallen" I can't help but thinking of
Allied troops assaulting and falling on the beaches of Normandy. In
this case the movie and score are an integrated, inseparable package.
But that Williams's tune always seems to evoke both sorrow and reverence
even when I'm not thinking about anything visual from "Saving Private
Ryan". But I can't tell you what the music theory basis might be.
After all, this is art. Sincerely,

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by J.B. Wood

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
When I listen to Faure's 'Berceuse', or Jobim's 'Childrens' Games', they
seem to invoke a feeling of childhood memories. Can music theory
explain this?

Hello, and just when I thought this ng was on life support. I think

ISTM that usenet in general is having a pretty hard time. Not easily
'monetised', I guess.

Post by J.B. Wood
before an answer to this question could be formulated you'd have to get
the images conjured up in the minds of many people who would listen to
the works you mentioned or other pieces that may provoke a "childish"
impression to you. I wouldn't reveal the titles of the works to the
subjects (who may well have heard them before). Put the subjects in a
room with minimal visual cues. Now tabulate all their impressions and
see of there's a thread of commonality. Then perhaps one can look for
musical structures common to these works.

I've a feeling that what I'm decribing is not going to affect everyone.
As a boy, I used to 'plonk' away on my grandmother's piano,
occasionally finding a pattern that I liked, and would repeat. The
music I'm describing seems able to recreate that, and the sensation
'takes me right back', as it were. It generally sounds simple, and
repetitive, and it seems like there are quick, repeated minor/major
changes, which are almost overwhelming. It's a clever trick :-)
Grieg's 'Wedding Day at Troldhaugen' (which, coincidentally, I visited a
few weeks ago) almost has the same effect for me.

Post by J.B. Wood
Composers writing motion picture scores strive to enhance what is acted
out on screen and the best always pull this off. For example, when I
hear John Williams's "Hymn to the Fallen" I can't help but thinking of
Allied troops assaulting and falling on the beaches of Normandy. In
this case the movie and score are an integrated, inseparable package.
But that Williams's tune always seems to evoke both sorrow and reverence
even when I'm not thinking about anything visual from "Saving Private
Ryan". But I can't tell you what the music theory basis might be. After
all, this is art. Sincerely,

[J.B. Wood]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I've a feeling that what I'm decribing is not going to affect everyone.
As a boy, I used to 'plonk' away on my grandmother's piano,
occasionally finding a pattern that I liked, and would repeat. The
music I'm describing seems able to recreate that, and the sensation
'takes me right back', as it were. It generally sounds simple, and
repetitive, and it seems like there are quick, repeated minor/major
changes, which are almost overwhelming. It's a clever trick :-) Grieg's
'Wedding Day at Troldhaugen' (which, coincidentally, I visited a few
weeks ago) almost has the same effect for me.

A place to start might be why a lot of folks experience sadness when
works are written in a minor key with lots of minor chords vice feelings
of joy when a major key is used. Do you find the sound of a classic
(minor third) church bell sad? For me the one piece in classical
repertoire that evokes overwhelming sadness and extreme mourning at the
loss of a loved one is Ravel's "Pavane For A Dead Princess". I'm a
grown man in his 60's and although I've heard that work many times I
never have a dry eye at its conclusion, be it solo piano or orchestral.
Sincerely,

[e7m]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
When I listen to Faure's 'Berceuse', or Jobim's 'Childrens' Games', they
seem to invoke a feeling of childhood memories. Can music theory
explain this?

I would suggest that you look at the melodic patterns and see if you find extensive use of the Pentatonic scale for the melodies. Especially the melodic tone set of Mi Sol and La.

I have not listened to these pieces for a VERY long time but children songs throughout the works are extremelly heavy on simple melodies with simple rhythmic patterns and especially use of these three notes in various patterns.

The commonality of the sounds that children sing all over the world is astounding and it seems to be a result of the natural most resonant tones that fit the physical structure of the lungs and vocal chords and general shape of the resonant cavity.

think of the children's songs that you remember and listen for these patterns and either by ear or score, check out these pieces and let me know what you find.

For guaranteed response (this group has been a bit inactive in recent times) go to <element7music.com> and send me an email through the contact box on the home page.

LJSe7m