Intelligent Groove===> polyrhythm, fractals, rhythm theory, phases, breaks

[Techfunk]

Dear All,

Electronic Dance Music is largely based on rhythm. Although I have a
good sense of timing and can play some very funky breaks on an
electric guitar, I am useless when it comes to creating an effective
dance groove on a computer. My unwavering desire to make electronic
music has led me to some interesting questions, and also discover how
deficient theory is when it comes to rhythm. For the past year and a
half, I have discovered the concepts of polyrhythms (also hemiola or
crossrhythm) and their intimate relationship with harmonic ratios
(notably the 3 against 4 polyrhythm (equivalent to a perfect fourth in
harmony), which is the most commonly used in Western music),
hypermetre, and just how simple and complex rhythm truly is.


In conclusion, I would like to understand why rhythm can be so
beautiful. I am searching for a systematic approach to creating
rhythms, layering and looping them, and finally arranging them through
time on a sequencer.

Lets talk about rhythm!

[Hans Aberg]

Post by Techfunk
In conclusion, I would like to understand why rhythm can be so
beautiful. I am searching for a systematic approach to creating
rhythms, layering and looping them, and finally arranging them through
time on a sequencer.

The human ear has special sensors for clicks. So perhaps it therefore
percussion is important in music.

Hans

[LJS]

Post by Techfunk
Dear All,
Electronic Dance Music is largely based on rhythm. Although I have a
good sense of timing and can play some very funky breaks on an
electric guitar, I am useless when it comes to creating an effective
dance groove on a computer. My unwavering desire to make electronic
music has led me to some interesting questions, and also discover how
deficient theory is when it comes to rhythm. For the past year and a
half, I have discovered the concepts of polyrhythms (also hemiola or
crossrhythm) and their intimate relationship with harmonic ratios
(notably the 3 against 4 polyrhythm (equivalent to a perfect fourth in
harmony), which is the most commonly used in Western music),
hypermetre, and just how simple and complex rhythm truly is.
In conclusion, I would like to understand why rhythm can be so
beautiful. I am searching for a systematic approach to creating
rhythms, layering and looping them, and finally arranging them through
time on a sequencer.
Lets talk about rhythm!

The computer is the same as any musical instrument. It is a tool that
allows a musician to recreate what is in his head and what he feels.
If the musician doesn't feel it and hear it in his head, he can not
program the computer to recreate what he doesn't hear or imagine.

Your examples of your studies seem to show that you are of the opinion
that the harmonic series can be is not only the foundation of the
harmonic (and thus the melodic) structure of music as well as the
rhythmic structure. I agree that if you go down to sub audible (to
humans) ratios that can only be indicated with pulses at their
cyclical rate, then I agree that there is merit to that.

If you want to discuss it, give it a go.

LJS

[pennamacoor]

Post by Techfunk
Dear All,
Electronic Dance Music is largely based on rhythm. Although I have a
good sense of timing and can play some very funky breaks on an
electric guitar, I am useless when it comes to creating an effective
dance groove on a computer. My unwavering desire to make electronic
music has led me to some interesting questions, and also discover how
deficient theory is when it comes to rhythm. For the past year and a
half, I have discovered the concepts of polyrhythms (also hemiola or
crossrhythm) and their intimate relationship with harmonic ratios
(notably the 3 against 4 polyrhythm (equivalent to a perfect fourth in
harmony), which is the most commonly used in Western music),
hypermetre, and just how simple and complex rhythm truly is.
In conclusion, I would like to understand why rhythm can be so
beautiful. I am searching for a systematic approach to creating
rhythms, layering and looping them, and finally arranging them through
time on a sequencer.
Lets talk about rhythm!

Sorry Techfunk, I made an error, the major third is not 4/3 (a fourth)
but 5/4, thus the track with the major thirds would have a step time
series of 30s: 0, 30, 60, 90, etc.

regards

michael pennamacoor

[pennamacoor]

Post by Techfunk
Dear All,
Electronic Dance Music is largely based on rhythm. Although I have a
good sense of timing and can play some very funky breaks on an
electric guitar, I am useless when it comes to creating an effective
dance groove on a computer. My unwavering desire to make electronic
music has led me to some interesting questions, and also discover how
deficient theory is when it comes to rhythm. For the past year and a
half, I have discovered the concepts of polyrhythms (also hemiola or
crossrhythm) and their intimate relationship with harmonic ratios
(notably the 3 against 4 polyrhythm (equivalent to a perfect fourth in
harmony), which is the most commonly used in Western music),
hypermetre, and just how simple and complex rhythm truly is.
In conclusion, I would like to understand why rhythm can be so
beautiful. I am searching for a systematic approach to creating
rhythms, layering and looping them, and finally arranging them through
time on a sequencer.
Lets talk about rhythm!

Hi Techfunk, yes interesting indeed (a while back I asked the group if
anyone had any knowledge of a rhythmic equivalent to Slonimsky's
thesaurus of melodic phrases and scales). One could test out the sound
of various rhythmic chords using a sequencer (like mine) that enables
numeric input for step times. So, for example, if one wanted to hear a
rhythmic major triad and one set a quarter note's step time to 24,
then the tonic would be a bunch of step time 24s (1/1), the third a
bunch of step time 32s (4/3) and the fifth a bunch of step time 48s
(3/2). Thus one (tonic) track could have a series of 24s: 0, 24, 48,
72, 96, etc; the third track a series of 32s: 0, 32, 64, 96, etc; and
the fifth track a series of 48s: 0, 48, 96, 144, etc. Of course, any
of the tracks could be staggered by a short or long time value to
produce a 'strum'. If you have such a sequencer you could try out
triads and sevenths etc and hear (with a suitable sound being
triggered by the tracks) the rhythmic chords. With canonic staggerings
and looping, you could hear all kinds of rhythmic effects based upon
your notion of rhythmic harmonies. Just a thought (I shall be so
experimenting shortly). Good luck.

regards

michael pennamacoor

[LJS]

Post by pennamacoor

Post by Techfunk
Dear All,
Electronic Dance Music is largely based on rhythm. Although I have a
good sense of timing and can play some very funky breaks on an
electric guitar, I am useless when it comes to creating an effective
dance groove on a computer. My unwavering desire to make electronic
music has led me to some interesting questions, and also discover how
deficient theory is when it comes to rhythm. For the past year and a
half, I have discovered the concepts of polyrhythms (also hemiola or
crossrhythm) and their intimate relationship with harmonic ratios
(notably the 3 against 4 polyrhythm (equivalent to a perfect fourth in
harmony), which is the most commonly used in Western music),
hypermetre, and just how simple and complex rhythm truly is.
In conclusion, I would like to understand why rhythm can be so
beautiful. I am searching for a systematic approach to creating
rhythms, layering and looping them, and finally arranging them through
time on a sequencer.
Lets talk about rhythm!

Hi Techfunk, yes interesting indeed (a while back I asked the group if
anyone had any knowledge of a rhythmic equivalent to Slonimsky's
thesaurus of melodic phrases and scales). One could test out the sound
of various rhythmic chords using a sequencer (like mine) that enables
numeric input for step times. So, for example, if one wanted to hear a
rhythmic major triad and one set a quarter note's step time to 24,
then the tonic would be a bunch of step time 24s (1/1), the third a
bunch of step time 32s (4/3) and the fifth a bunch of step time 48s
(3/2). Thus one (tonic) track could have a series of 24s: 0, 24, 48,
72, 96, etc; the third track a series of 32s: 0, 32, 64, 96, etc; and
the fifth track a series of 48s: 0, 48, 96, 144, etc. Of course, any
of the tracks could be staggered by a short or long time value to
produce a 'strum'. If you have such a sequencer you could try out
triads and sevenths etc and hear (with a suitable sound being
triggered by the tracks) the rhythmic chords. With canonic staggerings
and looping, you could hear all kinds of rhythmic effects based upon
your notion of rhythmic harmonies. Just a thought (I shall be so
experimenting shortly). Good luck.
regards
michael pennamacoor

Why would you start with the rhythmic major chord before you explore
the "note" itself?

By that I mean, why not start with the Overtone series ratios rather
than the combination of them to get started. This will give you the
relationship of the pulses rhythmically in relation to the prime unit
of time, the measure, as the relationship of the tone to the
fundamental, the interval. This is much simpler and will closely
parallel the melodic and harmonic evolution with the rhythmic
evolution of music in general.

This would lead to an understanding of the primal forces of the
various rhythms as they relate to the harmonic series that we hear in
practically every sound that occurs in natural musical sounds.

Of course, if you are looking for an algorithm based upon the ratios
of chords etc, you will go through a lot of math and in the end you
will repeat your initial question of why you are not getting the truly
natural and primal forces that drive people to dance!

To jump to the combination of tones before understanding the single
tone and the relation of a tone to a fixed starting point, like the
fundamental, is looking for a conclusion based upon an out of context
premise and will be doomed to not giving you the answer of "why" some
rhythms work and some don't.

If you are interested in the correlation of the rhythms to the
Harmonic series, why not start with the "rhythmic series" first and
then upon creating this foundation, possibly go into the combination
of the components to this sub audio version of the Harmonic Series. If
you want to get into this in this manner. Simply respond to get it
started.

LJS